#YesAllMen tl;dr

by Lord Sutch

Hi there. So there’s been a lot of rage from men about David Cunliffe’s comments about apologising for being a man.

Here’s my simplified take:

It’s true that #notallmen are violent or abusers, but it’s also true that #yesallmen have a responsibility to change this culture that is so damaging.

The end.


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Raising Boys July 9, 2014 - 11:49 am

Yes and no.

Yes – I believe that #yesallmen have a responsibility to change this culture.

No – I also believe that apologizing for “being a man” is counter to that responsibility. Because as a father of boys the most important thing I can do to change this culture is to raise those boys outside of it. As part of that I have to reinforce that no-one and I mean no-one should ever be made to feel ashamed of who they are or be fearful that their very nature will bring ridicule and scorn. I can’t teach that if I go around and then apologize for some aspect of me. I will teach them that they can and should be sorry for what other men do. But not for being a man. That they should be proud of being a man where a man is a good empathetic man. I can quite happily stand behind “sorry for what men have done” but not “sorry for being a man”.

Mark Blackham July 17, 2014 - 10:15 am

That might have been a cool and hip argument format at school. And saying “the end”, as if that was the definitive argument and there is no more debate, is just so clever I can’t believe no one has thought of it before . To be a better thinker, and more persuasive with those thoughts, you might consider using evidence and logic. The end (oh, yeah, just saying it does make you feel superior…)

Lord Sutch
Lord Sutch July 17, 2014 - 8:07 pm

How do you provide evidence for a moral imperative? You’re suggesting that the burden of proof is on people who want to stop slut shaming/enabling rape culture. But no. You tell me why the current situation is acceptable, and why men aren’t responsible.

Mark Blackham July 18, 2014 - 12:23 pm

If morals don’t need to have evidence for them, what makes them “imperative”?

Yes, the burden of proof is on people who claim a culture has specific symptoms and expressions. I’m not claiming any such definitions, you are.

So, the burden of proof is on you to to explain why each man is responsible for the moral choices every other man makes.

You haven’t tried. You made a statement you thought was clever because it had semantic symmetry. That’s not argument. Must do better.

Lord Sutch
Lord Sutch July 22, 2014 - 9:50 am

Because Men have repressed women since I don’t know …oh forever. Consequently we’ve given ourselves a position of power. Of privilege. It’s an unfair world tipped unevenly in favour of men. We need to try and make it fair. In order to do that ALL men should work to try and undermine the culture that enables slut shaming etc to occur.

As I get older the depressing thing is that it’s becoming apparent that in order for us to be a fair equal society in terms of gender, the shift has to come from men. All men.


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